my name is Stephen Moore and I’m the presenter of the your Law Firm success podcast this podcast explores the roots to Law Firm success we chat to those who have done it those who are doing it and those who help law firms do it this podcast is brought to you by MLT digital the leaders in law firm success today’s edition of the your Law Firm success podcast was with Catherine Hyde of Hooper Hyde Catherine’s an inspiration in many ways because she took the decision tough decision   to leave full-time employment safe employment in order to start her own firm which is a very Purpose Driven approach and part of our reasons for doing that were around being able to balance the challenging aspects of being a mum and also being a lawyer I hope you enjoy today’s episode Catherine has a different version of success from many of the lawyers I’m sure will speak to but a definition that is no less valid Catherine thanks very much for agreeing to chat with me today um as you know this is a podcast called your law firm success it’s all about lawyers and their own versions of success and how they can achieve that so I thought the first best questions to ask you to start off with is what do you see what do you what would you define Law Firm success as so for me the definition of law firm success definitely does doesn’t sit in the financial side of things of course money is a great measure for success and you know growth but I think for me  success looks like changing the conversations that people are having about lawyers and for people to be able to say that they really value and even love their relationship with their lawyer I think for me that’s the biggest the biggest thing is knowing that the experience that someone has had has been a positive one does that make sense okay you know that’s interesting because often people see the purchase of a legal service as being a distress purchase you know it’s not  something that somebody would anticipate with much relish or enthusiasm whereas is that something   that that you’re meaning that you’d like to change the way in which a lawyer is seen yeah I think I   think you’re never going to get from the fact that there are certain things that people need  lawyers for that is a distress purchase right there’s no getting away from that fact however the relationship that you have with your lawyer in the context of that distress purchase doesn’t have to be a bad one actually it needs to be a positive one it needs to be that you trust   your lawyer implicitly it can’t be that this already stressful situation that you find yourself   in is then layered with this relationship with a professional advisor that is isn’t an easy one because ultimately you’ve got to trust the person who is giving you   the advice in that any given moment now there are situations where it doesn’t have to be a distress   purchase you know I will always be an advocate for someone getting their commercial agreements sorted properly so that they then don’t need me to resolve a dispute later down the line or if   they do need me that resolution is a lot easier because their commercial Agreements are already   in place that protect them to a certain extent or have mechanisms in place to protect but yeah I strongly believe that your relationship with your legal adviser really shouldn’t add an additional layer of frustration and irritation on top of the already stressful situation you find yourself in so your version of success for you anyway is more about the relationship that you’re forming with   your clients rather than a financial goal around that which is different you know for many others   and what is it or why is it that you’ve arrived at that as a definition of success do   you think um I think I have always valued people over anything else and I think I think perhaps to   a certain extent the pandemic had had a had an impact on people realising the value of human   connection to a certain extent when we realise we couldn’t see people and we couldn’t hang out   with people and we were stopped from spending time with our loved ones I think people really would realise and I know I did I realised how important it was for me to be around people um so I think that had an impact and I think you know I the story on my website you know about what kind   of where I’ve arrived how I’ve arrived to where I am now and you know losing both of my parents   and you know just really valuing the fact that actually what impression do you leave somebody   with once you’ve been their legal advisor people kind of don’t care about the paper it’s not about   the paper they’re not buying paper right they’re buying the experience that you have given them have have they walked away from that transaction with you feeling satisfied that they have been   given the best advice do they feel like they’ve been understood you know there’s so there’s so much there that actually has nothing to do with the commodity that you create for them and everything to do with the way that you make them feel afterwards but I think you know the stereotypical concept is well you know you’re just paying for the written advice  or you’re just paying for the commercial contract or you’re just paying for a win at trial actually for me it’s way more than that it’s because the because the lasting impact is how you make someone feel what’s that phrase you don’t they don’t remember what you said they don’t what you did but they will always remember how they you made them feel 100% believe that and was this   so let’s if we could go back a wee bit because you know the relationship that you form with your clients is obviously extremely important it’s been and it’s been something that’s been emphasised or maybe a catalyst for that has been the bereavement that you suffered you know and obviously you know I’m sorry about that um were you working in an environment where or   have you worked in environments where perhaps the relationship between you and your client has been subservient to the need to bill certain amounts of time yeah 100% absolutely the focus for the majority of my career really was very much about the numbers on the paper not  building a relationship ship and actually there was a point where the only interaction really had   with the client was via email there was not a huge amount of telephone interaction and that in part was borne out of the fact that we were we were having to churn out so much work you don’t get the opportunity to forge relationships with these people actually you’ve just got to get through it as quickly as possible which boils down to ultimately getting the numbers you know you’ve got your 6.7 chargeable hours a day that you’ve got to get through and you’ve to do it as efficiently as possible and actually having a 10-minute conversation with a client on the phone about how   their weekend has gone just doesn’t lend itself to that right you haven’t got time for that and did you find that also would be affecting the relationships that you were building at work   also the time pressures or constraints that were happening there yeah I don’t think I necessarily   was that aware of it but I suppose on reflection actually that is true you know you get in you know you sit down you you’ve got X number of tasks to get through you’ve got to keep your head   down and get through it and there were occasions where you know if you were caught chatting for too long it was well you know come on guys you’ve been standing around for too long you’ve got to go yeah   so I can’t remember which firms necessarily but I know that it definitely happened so yeah I sometimes listen to the Rangan Chatterjee podcast I don’t know if you ever   listened to that the feel better live more and one of them there was a very of it was   either in that or the high performance podcast there was a chat about happiness and um what   the sort of research was essentially showing was that money can bring with it choice and security to a certain extent however all of in of in itself it won’t bring happiness the happiness is really determined by the quality of the relationships that you have you know with those around you and you know I imagine you know certainly for me that involves the  relationships that I have with the people that I work with and that I work for and you know I  imagine that what you’re seeing as a result of this you know Catalyst in your you know personal life is that you began to really appreciate the impact that positive relationships having you in an ongoing basis absolutely yeah without a shadow of a doubt life’s so short right you know if you’re going to spend it with people spend it with people you like it’s that simple yeah I think maybe that was maybe motivation for me around not becoming a   lawyer in the longer term you know and I don’t mean that you know disparaging denigrate in relationships yeah you know I don’t I just I just realised that this you know you need to find your tribe to a certain extent and in MLT I think we’ve ended up with a group of General sort of legal Misfits who have maybe did law but didn’t fit being within the environment and so about your background can you tell me a bit about your background before setting up your own firm in terms of your experience um the type of firms that you worked in and then taking the leap into setting up your own firm that is much more of a sort of purpose driven has more of a purpose-driven approach behind it yeah so gosh this is a bit of a long story so I did a languages degree at University actually and law was not even remotely on my radar at this point in time and I just happened to get a job as a legal secretary once I’d finished University because I kind of didn’t know what I wanted to do um and that was what was Rags it’s now Gowlings they were extremely supportive of me progressing in my career they supported my um  me doing my CP and my LPC at the time I then became a paralegal there but unfortunately they  weren’t hugely encouraging about me um applying to become a trainee they essentially said that they wouldn’t support the application so I got a job somewhere else and then when I handed my notice in they said oh no don’t leave we’ll support your application and I just said look you didn’t you weren’t prepared to support me when I before I you know had said I was leaving so this isn’t  the kind of environment I want to work in and we I didn’t leave on bad terms but it was you know you didn’t support me then you’re not going to support me now like I think our relationship is done um so I then went to Shakespeare’s and qualified at Shakespeare’s and then on qualification because it was we were still at the tail end of you know the 2008 crash so at this point there wasn’t a huge amount of NQ jobs so I there wasn’t any going at Shakespeare so I moved to Berryman’s at this point Berryman’s Lace Mawer worked in their insurance fraud department for a number   of years um and then moved to beach Crofts to do a similar sort of thing great you know I’m so fortunate to have worked at some of these law firms right they’re huge businesses and you know I really loved it at the time um and then just my mum what happened my mum passed away and I think I just sort of started to question oh when I had my second daughter that was it and I just sort   of started to question how I was going to navigate this really stressful job with having all of these   external you know all of this personal life going on with supporting my mum supporting my dad having two children I just couldn’t really figure out how those two things mesh together and whilst Beachcrofts were sort of supportive of flexible working it was you can only do for you know you   can only get down to four days you’ve really got to be certain that your work is covered on the   on the fifth day um you know there just wasn’t a huge amount of flexibility and I just felt like I was never really giving a 100% to either my home life or my work life so I was fortunate enough to know a chap who owned a High Street firm and he offered me a part-time role which I thought was the answer you know I thought okay I can do this I can I can go and work part-time and deal with the family stuff and then quickly realised that litigation doesn’t lend itself to 3 days a  week it just doesn’t work because you can need to do something at any given point in time  you know I had a week’s holiday booked off and ended up having to come into the office to work because something happened with one of my cases and I needed to deal with it so it still didn’t really kind of work for me and I sat in this space of thinking is this just how it is like you don’t get to have both you can’t have you know this this great career and feel like you’re giving what you need to your personal life I was like is do I just have to accept that that’s how it is but I got to a point where I said to my husband I can’t I just can’t do this anymore I   don’t I feel this overwhelming sense of guilt on both sides of the fence on both the professional side and the personal side that I’m just not giving what I should be to either one of those   things so he was like well just quit just quit your job we’ll figure it out and I kind of went   what I people don’t do that do they people don’t just you know what are you talking about but I did I handed my notice in I had 3 months’ notice period so I work my notice not a clue   what I was going to do on the other side of this three months’ notice just thinking I can’t carry on   here so I happened to come across the consultant model at this point so you know self-employed   solicitor model and thought do you know what I could probably find my own clients so I think   I might give that a try that might be the answer here because I can pick and choose my hours I can   pick and choose who I work for maybe that’s the answer and to be fair that was a great you know   I did three years of self-employed consultancy um but during that time felt that the brand that   I was under as a consultant was very corporate and very lacking in any human touch and that was no   criticism of it that was just the way it was and I felt that there was a different way of doing it and really opening up the profession to the idea that actually lawyers are human beings and   we’re really nice people and actually I felt that that the brand didn’t necessarily reflect what   I wanted to put out to the world and therefore there was a disconnect in in the way that I was   talking to people about how I could help them so I just decided you know what I’m going to set up   my own firm and actually I know that we talked about the bamboo platform I was in the process of applying for my SRA authorisation when I came across the bamboo platform and it felt like it  was a good transition to not going from just completely self-employed all on my own to being   SRA authorised but actually an opportunity to build to really focus on building the kind of firm  I wanted to build without the distractions of SRA regulation and dealing with you know solicitor’s accounts rules and all that sort of thing actually it felt like it then meant that I could   add more energy to the things I really wanted to put energy into I mean that’s interest I mean we did mention that we mentioned bamboo and I you know about how off-putting some of the   regulatory aspects must be but um to go back to you actually your motivation which was really   that you wanted to be able to um spend time with your family to build the relationships with them   while also while also being able to continue with your career in a way that you know and you know   people talk about having it all I don’t think you know anyone can have it all as such however there are ways in which you able to achieve a balance I think between the two and I know when we chatted   before you were chatting that your um mum had been very much looking forward to her retirement and what she was going to do then um you know and obviously I don’t want to go anything that would   upset you or anything but we chatted a bit about that and how that impacted on your motivation   now which I think is quite a common one and an interesting one around Law Firm success if you   don’t mind more you know I’ve said it for so long that Mum worked so hard so hard as a you know   a teacher and then a deputy head and then a head teacher she really put her heart and soul   into that job you know and she was she was working crazy hours for the purpose of basically then having this lovely retirement pot that her and my dad could then go traveling the world you know seeing all the places that they hadn’t had a chance to see yet you know and then and then   she became ill I think she was diagnosed around about her 59th birthday and passed away I think it   was about 2 or 3 months before her 65th birthday so she didn’t even get to retirement and I just   thought hang on a second surely life isn’t just about work work work work work in order to get to this point in time where you can suddenly enjoy all of the all of the hard work that you’ve put in surely there’s more to it than that and I just kind of thought there’s got you know like  you said it’s not about having it all it’s about saying right what do I actually really want   to spend my time doing I know that I need to make money I know that I need to pay the bills that’s   given but you have to do something that lights you up during that period of time and there’s   going to be bits that are a bit rubbish and you don’t really want to do because that’s life right   sometimes you have to do things you don’t want to do um but to just wait until this you know unknown potentially never going to happen point in time to enjoy it just seems so Bonkers to me you know life is short and you do not know what is going to happen tomorrow let alone in 25 year’s time you know and I’m not suggesting being frivolous or irresponsible but I think it’s important that you realise that actually you’ve only really got today right in this moment is really the only thing you   have past is gone future hasn’t happened yet it’s today this it right yeah and I remember thinking   about that before you know and I can be guilty of getting caught up with visions of my future   which aren’t necessarily Rosy see and I think um I thought about it quite a lot and thinking about the past can make you sad and thinking about the future can make you anxious you know so being   able to um as you say try your hardest to be working in a way today that doesn’t um negatively   affect your future but also has an impact on the relationships that you’re able to build   with your family during a time that I think it’s most important for them particularly when they’re   younger because you know I found it myself as my as my children have got older yes they need me   less but the relationships that I’ve managed to develop with them over the course of the past 19 years or whatever maybe at points they’d wish they’ been at work more or had been out of   the house more but that wasn’t the case so um but now I feel Freer actually to work on building my business more because I think well actually they don’t need me quite as much and now I can do this and I like it anyway you know and I suppose you know what’s interesting you for you is that keen to get across is your vision of Law Firm success is about building well changing the   narrative around the provisional legal service around how lawyers are viewed but also around   the relationships that you can have with your clients in the same way as you can build your   relationships with those who are important to you and yes you will sacrifice some of the financial rewards that might have come as a result of knocking your pan in and maybe   you might have been able to go in a slightly more expensive holiday or have a slightly more  expensive car but instead what you’re saying look actually I can raise my family and grow my Law Firm absolutely I 100% 100% believe that like you say it could be that I had I could have grown   quicker and have a bigger bank balance right now but those things for me they’re just not   the point you know it’s not it’s not what gives me joy today isn’t how much money I’ve got in my bank   account or how big I am as a law firm what gives me joy at the end of the day is have I had the   right conversations with the right people and have I contributed in a way that I that that feels like   there’s some value been given and have I been able to do the school run and be home in time to cook   dinner and put the kids to bed ultimately so and I know at each point since I’ve been running the   business for two and a half years and I know that there’s been a couple of instances where almost   been drawn into that whole oh no I’m supposed to be focusing on growth through numbers and money and how much revenue I’m creating and like I said those things are good measures of growth but   for me they’re not measures of success because as soon as I focus on them there’s a disconnect   because it’s not they’re not the point for me the success comes you know money is a nice by-product of what I’m doing and ultimately I need to pay the bills but the success for me   comes from getting that review at the end of her of doing a piece of work and the client saying I   really felt like she understood my business I really felt like I was heard and I feel really  confident moving forward those are the three things that I want to hear and those for me   measures of success if I don’t hear them then what have I done that I could have done differently   have I let them down have I done something wrong you know is there something else we   could do better but for me those three things like that’s it and you very clearly come across in your marketing your personal brand building and Link in this way does that also have an impact   on the types of clients that you attract and also and continue to work with and also the staff yeah very much or colleagues that you wish to attract yeah very much I think in terms of the clients it’s just clients   who want to have conversations with normal people who aren’t you know because I think the profession   has a reputation for being a bit intimidating and it you know it has been in the past and there are   still lots of lawyers who are quite intimidating intentionally or not you know that’s unfortunately   the nature of the Beast and whereas I know that there are a lot of people who shy away from getting advice because they can’t find someone that they feel that they connect with they don’t   necessarily feel like you know they feel like they might be patronised or You Know spoken down to or spoken to in a way that they don’t really understand and they don’t feel safe enough to say   actually I don’t really understand what you mean could you repeat it please or you know   explain it in a different way um and I think I think that that in itself I just I didn’t  want that I don’t want people to feel like it’s not just an adult conversation you know I’ve just got a particular set of skills that I can deploy in certain situations found like that film taken you know but that doesn’t make me better than anybody else right it doesn’t make you know and I just think but what it has done is meant that I feel like I’m having true conversations about what I can offer in the experience that someone has and equally they know what they’re going to get when they approach me so it will you know it will dis dispel no that’s not the  word I’m looking for it will attract the people to me that want to have that kind of experience   and it will mean that people that go oh I don’t want a lawyer who talks like that aren’t going to   come to me which is great because I don’t want to work with people who don’t want a slightly over excited very handsy when she talks lawyer right I just I like I said earlier Life’s too short I want to spend it with nice people and people that I get on with and is that the same for colleagues   you know maybe if we could check we just if you could tell me a bit about the actual type of work that you do and the size that your firm’s currently at the moment yeah so the I’ve got  three I was going to say four but one of them is sort of half in half out so there’s four  lawyers self-employed lawyers that work with me so there’s me another litigator um a commercial   lawyer a corporate lawyer and an employment lawyer although employment lawyer does we don’t do huge   amount of employment law Works hence why I was a bit hesitant to mention her really because   we don’t just don’t do a huge amount um and the types of work we do so we do commercial work so   you know you kind of standard teas and sees you know Master service agreements privacy policies data protection all that sort of thing we do m&a so you know buying and selling of businesses restructuring um commercial disputes and property disputes so you know the kind of standard debt   recovery breaches of contract directors falling out all that sort of thing um and then like I said  employment work but not a huge amount of that um so yeah I think that covered everything and you and the type of um business that you normally work with like what’s it of size or   has it just been something that’s been developing organically through existing relationships and   there’s no one- size fits-all yeah there isn’t a one-size fits-all I would say the majority of the businesses that we act for are micro businesses a lot of people think that they’re small businesses but actually they’re micros and then we have a handful of medium-sized businesses and then   slightly bigger chunk of small businesses typically service-based businesses um again that’s   never been an intentional play on my part it’s just how it’s how it’s played out um possibly   because I understand service based businesses because I am one um so yeah and then and then   they just they tend to fall into a sort of pockets of I’ve got you know like marketing and digital agencies and that sort of creative agencies you know video editing and that kind of thing um   and then I’ve got a pocket St maybe we should yeah do you need a lawyer um and then um another pocket   weirdly which again hasn’t been intentional of like facilities maintenance and management um so   I’ve got a client who does Residential Properties and then another client who does more um the sort   of large Builders Merchants like they do a lot of maintenance for large build builders Merchant and   that sort of thing so yeah but again I haven’t sort of intentionally gone right I want that   kind of work it’s just the nature of what’s happened and recommendations and referrals you know so they themselves have their own networks that include these kinds of businesses so they   tend to recommend us to their contacts and I imagine those are the size of businesses where you’re able to form a relationship with a decision maker within the business it’s less   like um the Insurance litigation background where it’s procurement driven commodity driven you know  a relationship really isn’t that important um you know maybe the one that was initially formed might   have been um and so that would fit yeah and in terms of so we chat I keep saying in terms of   I keep listening to that in my podcast and every time I’m going I need to stop saying in terms of you’re quite clear you’re obviously very clear on what’s important to you and what you   know is going to be making you happy and make you sleep at night and get up in the morning thinking   like I’m not kicking my height on Monday morning but I’ve not got the fear and I might be a bit   happier on a Friday but I’m not dreading Monday already have you did you work specifically   on those aspects of your what I would call your personal brand or are these things that have just   of evolved over time into being your general Credo because it comes across very clearly as if you have worked on it I joke about this a lot I’ve never really had a strategy for this   I’ve just trusted my instincts and known that I needed to put out into the world my true self   and if people didn’t like that kind of tough right because I had spent such a long time being   a square peg in a round hole you know Catherine you’re too much or you’re too confident you use   your hands too much when you speak you know too much too much too much that it was almost like   it was bursting out and I was like I’ve just got to be who I am and yeah I just kind of trusted my instincts and went well this feels like the right thing to do and how I mean there was a conscious  decision to a certain extent when I first started out because it was May 2021 we were still kind of   in the throes of the pandemic and I knew I needed to get in front of people quickly in order to build this business because really I was going from a standing start I had a handful of clients from when I was self-employed but that was it so there was a very conscious decision to go   right I’m going to use LinkedIn to make sure that people know who I am what I can do and where they   can find me so I did make that decision but in terms of the kind of content that I put out or   the there’s no strategy behind any of it it’s just right I’ve happened to have had this conversation   with some clients this week so that feels like a relevant LinkedIn post or okay well I was in   Venice on Friday so I’ll post about that because people are nosy and like to know what you’re doing   in your day-to-day life you know so yeah it was I’ve never really had a strategy for it it’s   just right let’s just let’s just put myself out into the world and see what happens yeah no I mean it comes across strongly I did do quite a lot of work on my personal brand a while ago more to understand you know my reasons for doing certain things and it’s a way of codifying   I think your beliefs and the way in which you want to interact with people and then what content then   fits within that it doesn’t end up I suppose is what you don’t want is a contrived situation it has to feel very natural but it sort of gives it a framework which I find really useful and in terms of um hopes and dreams yes hopes and dreams what are your hopes and dreams um I mean my hopes   and dreams for my business is that it continues to grow and that and that we will always get  the feedback from client that they’re happy with the service that they’re receiving you know I don’t have a sort of I must get to5 million pound turnover within the next five years kind of goal I set myself Financial targets that are you know sort of vague but in the in the right in order to make this next decision I want to make this is the revenue that we need to be we need to be bringing in but I think for me it’s quite it’s always been about creating space right it’s always been about creating a space for great lawyers to do great work for great clients that’s really been it so my hopes and dreams are that we just continue to do that and we find better ways   than the ways we might be doing it today to do that you know how can I you know I was fortunate enough to go self-employed and that really worked for me having a young family and having parents   who needed support I want to create that space for people I want people to be able to have that that   opportunity that I had so yeah my I mean my hopes and dreams are so woo right for a lawyer you know   I’m not talking about like oh well you know I have to have X number of clients by this point in time   you know it’s about creating space but I think it’s refreshing you know Catherine I think   that’s why it’s been really H good to have you on today because everyone’s version of success is   different you know there’s no right and wrong and I do think you know traditionally for women coming   in with a family at home there’s often been too much compromise there and too much compromise in   terms of what can be possible you know and for you to be able to provide a model for others I think   is really inspiring which is that you know you can do a number of the things some aspects of  each will suffer a little bit but they don’t have to suffer majorly in the benefits far out way the   negatives and certainly they seem to have done for you so far absolutely yeah um so I think you know more power to you I think it’s it takes a lot of I wouldn’t say confidence backbone and metal when you decide what you’re going to do is is break a m to a certain extent and be Resolute   in terms of your own goals and say no this is actually what’s important to me so I’m going  to work out a way of doing that it’s not it’s going to it’s going to involve elements of yes   of hard work and definitely some hard times but ultimately if I stick with it it will come yeah   it definitely felt very exposing in the beginning when I I didn’t I don’t know who told you this I didn’t actually tell anyone that started my own business for a month because I was too scared to   I was worried that people would judge me and go oh why did she think she can do that and especially   that way like that’s ridiculous you know I just assumed that all of my you know ex- colleagues   and my peers would just think I had lost my mind so I didn’t tell anyone for a month and   then I was like you know what I should probably start telling people because otherwise how am I   going to get any work and that’s the point at which I committed to LinkedIn and said right   I need to actually really start doing this but yes you know it is hard it’s hard to be you   know a human in a profession that wants you to be a perfectionist and I think the profession is   changing I think there’s a lot of firms I know that the CEO of Shakespeare’s is really keen on focusing or you know at least putting some focus on the human the humanness of lawyers you know I know that she talks a lot about that on LinkedIn um and I do think the profession is changing but I think we’ve got a long way to go but it what yeah it was really and is still at times I go to post things and I think ah is this a little bit too vulnerable like how do I really feel about what I’m about to say um so yeah it’s you know and like I said earlier I have those moments where I’m drawn into what I should be doing because that’s what other law firms are   doing you know this this very serious professional polished you know and then I think well that’s not   really what I’ve been come to known for be known for and that’s not what people want from me so don’t be drawn into what you think you should be doing just because other law firms are doing it and the example I think of is there’s a there’s another firm I won’t name names but they do their own podcast and it’s all very polished and slick and all very professionally recorded and   you all the video that they put out all very professionally recorded and Polished whereas   mine are literally talking into my mobile phone you know but for me that’s the connection piece it’s because and I want people to feel like they’re talking to me not watching a very   polished professional video because it’s not the experience you get from me you get professional   advice but in a very relaxed way so yeah some but yeah it has at times felt very exposing well you’re over the worst I’m sure now in the most you know in the most challenging bit of it the   most challenging bit of any business is getting is getting it started in getting some momentum and then once that happens it can begin to build up a momentum of its own but um I just want to   say thank you very much very welcome Catherine for your time and I am certainly looking forward   to watching your progress over the next while and listening to more of your content and watch more   of your content on LinkedIn just finally we’re people find you so I’m mostly the easiest place to   probably LinkedIn because I’m always logged into it so I’m just on there it’s Catherine Hyde and   then they can get a hold of me obviously via the website or um to the websites www.hooperhyde.com but to be honest with you the easiest place is to just probably send me a DM on LinkedIn and I’ll pick it up okay well thank you very much thanks for your time and um catch up again soon so   thanks very much for listening to today’s episode I hope you enjoyed it I hope you’re enjoying our  content we”ll be delighted to hear any feedback that you have you can find out more about the your Law Firm success podcast at mltdigital.co.uk/podcast Please Subscribe please share with your friends please share with anyone who you know that you think would be interested